Tony Davidson (TJM Records / TJ Davidson’s Rehearsals) - Interview (2020)

The history of the Manchester Music Scene from the night the Sex Pistols played the Lesser Free Trade Hall on 6th June 1976 is generally well documented for  those who are interested.

Over the last couple of years a two books have been published by Empire Publishing, Martin Ryan's 'Friends Of Mine' and Gareth Ashton's 'Manchester, It Never Rains' which added new perspectives to the music scene in the city leading up to and including the early days of punk and new wave.

This October sees the release of 'The TJM Story' by Tony Davidson, a man who isn't perhaps as well known as the likes of Tony Wilson, Rob Gretton or Martin Hannett however is equally important, if not more so, in some areas and whose involvement facilitated the development and growth of a number of individuals and bands which has led to artists such as New Order and Simply Red being heard around the world.

Tony regularly posts fascinating anecdotes on Facebook which add additional context to what's been written about previously and I, like many are really looking forward to reading the book

Hi Tony, How are you?

Very good, working hard on the book, getting to the end of it now. It's been a good experience, really enjoying it, the people I've been meeting and the really great stories/memories I'm hearing

When did you start pulling it together?

I started off over 2 years ago, a slow process, and then things started getting momentum with a few 'big names' coming along. now I've got a bit of media interest to now they know there is a book coming out

 

A lot of significance is put on the first Pistols gig and Factory for making Manchester what it is, but I think you’re often overlooked and don’t get the credit or recognition you deserve in making things happen

No, I don't. Tony Wilson came a long later, and was a great talented guy in the media but it all had to start somewhere, and part of that was the bands coming together and a lot of them have said if it wasn't for the TJM set up with the Warehouse in the centre of Manchester the music scene could have happened but it would have been very fragmented... because of the rehearsal rooms it gave bands a chance to come together to share their ideas, Peter Hook said that, it was a place all the bands came together, it was just a unique moment in time

Did you feel it was something special at the time?

Not really, when you're in the process of it all from 1977-79 you're just doing your best but now it's become part of the worldwide music history

How did you come to buy the warehouse that was to become TJ Davidson’s?

My family were in the jewellery business, and I was very lucky. I had left jewellery college and worked in the family shop for a year and then went out on my own. At the same time the price of gold went up, and because of the contacts I had in about 6 months I earnt quite a bit of money. I was going to buy a house in Wilmslow and about to get married to my first wife, but I was managing The Drones and had some success getting them a record deal...

Like a lot of people went to the second Sex Pistols concert. I was just fired up and have a eureka moment. I'd done my best with The Drones taking them as far as I could and saw this property in town, you're talking about Manchester in 1977, it was a very depressed area, near Deansgate, around the corner from where the Hacienda would be, less than 50 yards away on Little Peter Street. This 'mill' took up two thirds of the street, I looked round it and thought 'right'... 

I always knew there was a demand for a place for rehearsals and just had a feeling. I could see the bands in there. I just got the inspiration...

Can I ask how much it cost?

The building cost me £21500, they had it up at £28000 but I got it down to £21500 and bought the property... that was a lot of money back in 1977. I wish I'd kept it! I'd be a millionaire by now!

 

How did you attract the bands?

I had a plan straight away and started fly posting, advertising, there was no media, no internet... I got Tosh Ryan from Rabid Records involved, did my office in the building up and then the bands just started coming... the first were Ed Banger and The Nosebleeds

and then it was just an avalanche... people saw the number about town and started coming down, Joy Division, The Fall, Buzzcocks... and big bands at the time like Sad Cafe. Sometimes there would be 20 bands in there at the same time and out of that then started the record company...

 

I was going to ask about that, did it feel like a natural progression?

Yes, it was a natural progression as there were so many bands...

I remember when Mick Hucknall come in, he was very push though and we were full, he said 'but we've come all the way from Hyde'... I said I've got one room... right in the depth of the building, in the cellar, it had lighting but no natural light... they loved it... After 2 weeks I went to get my rent money but they didn't have it... and Hucknell said 'we'll do a record for you'... at the time I'd signed The Distractions and Slaughter and The Dogs, they weren't even on my radar... but he was that persuasive, I said 'look, I'll give you 4 weeks free time'... cos I felt sorry for them... told them to improve the act as they were all over the place musically, hone your craft, and fair play to them they used to treat it like a job and come in 9am-5pm and work.They still weren't perfect, but I saw something...

Slaughter and The Dogs come in, they'd left Decca, and thought they were gonna sell records so gave them a big money deal... £2000 advance... put them in the studio, they sold 15000 records, which today would get you in the charts...

 

What was it like with Joy Division?

I saw them develop from Warsaw into Joy Division, they didn't really know what they were doing at first, people say now that they had some magical touch... but it was the press and production that made them.

At the time they come to me and asked me to manage them. but I had so much on my plate with the rehearsal rooms and record company... I knew I couldn't do them justice, I think they were trying to impress me, I remember it clearly, they took me to the one kebab house in Manchester open on a Sunday, under Piccadilly Hotel... but I said to them, give me 2 weeks... and in that time Rob Gretton became the manager... we had a good laugh about that

But you still helped them with 12" repressing of 'Ideal for Living'

Yeah, I leant the money, it was all good natured, I didn't charge them any interest... they owed me £100 in back rent too which I put in the letter that has been in books and things

 

There must be some fantastic stories going into the book...

There are, Billy Duffy who is in America now was in Ed Banger and The Nosebleeds, he's a superstar now in The Cult. Toby Tomanov was in Primal Scream.... the stories they tell me are fantastic.

There are so many stories within stories

 

You had a feature in 'Record Collector' earlier in the year. Has there been any interest in putting together a compilation of the bands?

Yes, we're bringing out a compilation to cover the label

 

TJM Records finished in 1979, what did you do afterwards?

After TJM closed down I went back to the jewellery business until a few years later when Mick Hucknall, Simply Red released 'Holding Back The Years' and I had those early recordings of him so I brought out a 12" EP of the 6 recordings he did for TJM.

There was a big legal case with Virgin which I won... and after that I started up a '60's' label...

 

That must have been interesting...

It was, I did a lot of work signing about 80 bands from the 60's. People like Pete Best, Tony Preston, Little Eva, Bobby Vee, The Searchers... load and loads...  and licensed them to part of the 'Trojan' Music Group. That took me all over the world... in the 90's I did a compilation Manchester bands...

 

With Pete Mitchell who is sadly no longer with us ?

Yes, that's very sad. It wasn't long since I'd spoken to him as he was going to set up meetings with Bernard Stephen and Hooky, separately of course but unfortunately, he passed away.

Since then I've met up with Hooky who said he wanted to get involved. He's always been very complimentary in his books about TJM and myself, he has agreed to speak on the 'launch night' for the book 

Sorry, I interrupted, so the 60's label?

Well I was a Soul Boy, loved the Twisted Wheel, but that lead me to punk. I just love music of all kinds. It's taken me all around the world... In the course of doing what I've done I've met people like George Martin, I'm not saying I'm a great friend of his but you'd get talking about what you were doing, he was really nice and interested with a real passion for music like me.

I've had a great life and here to tell the tale!

 

Just aside from music for a moment... football?

I used to be a United fan but for some reason lost interest When my son was young, I got interested in Bury FC, and I become a really passionate supporter.

Their demise has really impacted on the people of the town, they've lost their identity. It's a great shame but I will be supporting the phoenix club... I live just down the road in Prestwich

 

Is it just bands covered in the book?

I have as many as I could, not all the big bands. There are some of the 'smaller' ones. I couldn't interview everyone though as there were nearly 80, maybe 90 that passed through the rehearsal rooms, but there are people like  Dave Gleave from 'The Naughty Boys'... they didn't release anything but I've got to know Dave.

I've done a piece on the photographers that passed through in the book. There was Anton Corbijn and of course Kevin Cummins, but Dave has, by shear hard work and persistence,  come forward and for me is the No 1 Manchester photographer.

He's better than he thinks, he's a very talented photographer. He's got an edge on a lot of others so he merits a place in the book, he’s got the rare knack of bringing out the character in the individual. 

 

You mentioned The Fall, did you get to speak to Mark before we lost him?

Yes I did, I knew him from TJM and we got on, but in his later life I bumped into him in Prestwich Precinct. People always say he was very abrupt and offhand but he said, 'you'll have to come for a drink'.

I ended up drinking with him 3 or 4 times. He'd talk about things in life that were so in-depth and he encouraged me to get the book done... he wasn't one that followed Factory, he thought they were very pretentious.... but my point is I've been very honoured to have some of these kinds of meetings and do these off the wall interviews... I'm not going to say we were best of friends, but he did take time to do a great interview...

 

What can people expect from the book?

The book will not be a glib, sanitised thing, I've had a great life, but I have lived in the fast lane, 3 wives... I like wedding cake! I'm going to tell it like it is from my rebellious boarding school days it's all added up into a good story...

Finally, just back to Lou Macari, how did the contact with him come about, was it down to the 1979 Squad coming to rehearse their Cup Final Single at the rehearsal rooms?

That's another story! 

Football wasn't like it is now with all the millions but Man United were still the biggest. They'd got to the Cup Final against Arsenal. The club didn't sponsor the record, so the players had done a deal with RCA Records to get some money in their pockets.

TJM Studios were very prominent at the time, and my posters were plastered all around Manchester, you couldn't miss it... so I get a call from Man United asking how much it would be to book a rehearsal room just for 2 hours to rehearse the song...

I said £70. The cheque came the same day they came down. I'm there thinking 'they're not going to like it'... the rooms were great for the punks, they had atmosphere, but the players couldn't relate to that.

So they all come up the stairs, I greeted Lou Macari at the top, he's looking round, shaking his head, laughing and joking. Hucknall was there hanging over the bannister trying to get autographs, Hooky was there too but most of Joy Division were City... you could hear United and City chants echoing around the building...

Anyway, I opened up the room, which was Sad Cafe's room, they were away on a world tour... so they all look in and there was a deathly silence... and Sammy McIlroy says 'there's no chairs to sit down'... and I said, 'you’re not here for a Team Photo, you're here to rehearse'... so they all started laughing, and had a con-flab... Lou said... 'keep the cheque, we'll go back to Old Trafford to use the Conference Room there’.

Now, years later I'm doing the book and was thinking I wouldn't mind getting Man United in it, I managed to get through to Lou Macari and I introduced myself and asked if he could remember coming down... he burst out laughing and said 'I couldn't forget it... and you kept the cheque as well!'

From there we've struck up a rapport. I knew about his charity and was invited to go down. I tell you I was humbled. He's there at the homeless shelter 5 or 6 times a week, he's a modern-day Saint. I mean that genuinely. He devotes his time to help people that are really lost causes, and I have nothing but respect for him. He uses his celebrity status to help people, he's great guy.

I don't want to come across all 'Smashie and Nicey' about it but I've raised £2000 for his  Charity, 'The Macari Centre' though those I’ve spoken to about the book and people they’ve brought to it also, like yourself, with the reprints of some of the old posters and the TJM Badge..

 

Last 3 questions...

What's your favourite album?

That's a hard one... so many... I love a lot of different music, but I'd have to go back to a soul album really, it's quite rare now... 'The Artistry of Brenda Holloway'. I just do love soul music... I do lve punk and I do love rock, but I'll always go back to soul

Favourite single or song?

For that Brenda Holloway it's the whole album, but there is a track 'Every Little Bit Hurts' which is a kind of dance record that takes me back to when I used to go to the Twisted Wheel, just evokes happy memories.

All Time Favourite Band or Artist?

Dylan, I'd say Bob Dylan, for what he did to change pop music.

 

Thanks for your time Tony. Look forward to meeting up for the book launch if not before

 

 

Iain Key 2020